Raising the matter with Mark Drakeford yesterday
he said: “Of course, we already know that the prison and
probation service in Wales will be responsible for probation again from 2020 in
Wales, with a focus on communities, community sentencing and rehabilitation.
"But, given that the Wales Governance Centre analysis found that under the
Westminster criminal justice system, as it was earlier termed, the total number
of prison sentences in England between 2010-17 dropped 16 per cent but went up
0.3 per cent in Wales, and that custodial sentences imposed by magistrates in
Wales went up 12 per cent, what dialogue will you endeavour to have, perhaps,
with the Judiciary and with the Magistracy, to establish their reasons within
Wales for this, when I know, many years ago, in taking evidence in Assembly
Committee, when similar geographical differences were found, they put a case to
us that we were able to consider?”
The First Minister replied: “Why rates have risen
in the way they have in Wales is a complex matter. There is an increasingly
punitive climate of opinion that some analysts point to. There are certainly
changes to legislation. There were over 3,000 new offences put on the statute
book in 10 years from 1997 to 2007. We in this Assembly have put fresh offences
on the statute book in the work that we do.
"There are the impacts of sentencing
guidelines and guideline judgments that have had the effect of increasing
length of sentences, quite certainly, and there is the issue of, as some
sentencers put it, a collapse in confidence in the probation service. I said in
answer to Leanne Wood that we welcomed strengthening probation, building
confidence, in the consultation with the Ministry of Justice last summer. We'll
do what we can within that, but want to go further.”
Mr Isherwood added: “Such a difference in
delivery between England and Wales within what is a shared criminal justice
system provides yet another reason why the calls for devolution of criminal
justice by Labour and Plaid Cymru AMs must not be answered."